<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Desert Farming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/</link>
	<description>Why bother seeing the world for real?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:32:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Wayne Hussey</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-206466</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Hussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-206466</guid>
		<description>I was at the Wadi Aril Project during 1983-1984.
I believe we had 130 pivots, we were growing wheat and sorgum.  I was the last American to leave this project.

Thanks to the wonderful work of British Caladonia.
I owe them my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at the Wadi Aril Project during 1983-1984.<br />
I believe we had 130 pivots, we were growing wheat and sorgum.  I was the last American to leave this project.</p>
<p>Thanks to the wonderful work of British Caladonia.<br />
I owe them my life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: clif</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-203612</link>
		<dc:creator>clif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-203612</guid>
		<description>Oops, Mahmoud Khatab came after Mohamud Karah.  It was Karah who attended AZ state and married Joan.   Khatab replaced Karah.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, Mahmoud Khatab came after Mohamud Karah.  It was Karah who attended AZ state and married Joan.   Khatab replaced Karah.  Sorry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Clif Hammond</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-203611</link>
		<dc:creator>Clif Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-203611</guid>
		<description>Steve Hefner:  I&#039;m confused.  I was VP Engineering at Lockwood from 1969 through 1979.  Originally, the Libyans were sold a half dozen center pivots by Jim Ayers of Ames Irrigation Company in San Jose.  The Ames machine was an untested design with 250 foot spans and an aluminum pipe suspended beneath the structure.  It was underpowered and generally badly designed.  But Jim did a great &quot;sales&quot; job on the Libyans.  BTW, did you know Mahmoud Khatab?  He was educated in Az and married a Joan from there - later became head of the irrigation project until he was caught with his hands in the till.  Mahmoud was convinced that the Ames machine was the way to go, even tho it didn&#039;t &quot;go&quot; in the desert - or anywhere for that matter.  

Meanwhile, the Irrifrance copied a Lindsay pivot and sold 15 or 20 to the project.  They were such a poor copy and the workmanship was so bad, that as fast as they were assembled, they fell down.  Lockwood (President Fred Schneider) entered the picture and was asked if Lockwood could fix the Irrifrance machines and install them.  Fred and I visited the site and surveyed the project.  While climbing over the pile of Irrifrance pipe, I accidentally kicked a pipe flange and the weld broke.

Since Mahmoud was well programed by Ayres, he also wanted us to supply some new machines of the Ames design.  So, we bought the Ames company - not just for that reason, however - and set out to produce the Ames design.  I have absolutely no recollection of sending anyone to AZ with a mock up for testing.

Anyway, we did send a crew - 20 - 25 men as I recall - and did fix the Irrefrance machines and install a dozen or so of our Ames design.  I managed the project from Lockwood.  The on-site manager was Keith Rogers (see RAAFT.COM).  

This successful enough that we were able to supply a quantity of pivots of the Lockwood design.  This machine used 120 foot spans.  The irrigation pipe was the structure of the machine. However, since the water was acetic and would consume the zinc coating, we lined the pipe with a thin stainless tube.  It was explosive formed inside the finished pipe.  As far as I know, these are still running after 30+ years.

We used drop spray nozzels to lower the distance that the water had to travel from the pipe to the ground and to control the fine particles inhearant with impact sprinklers.  These fine particles would evaporate before hitting reaching the surface.  Besides using stainless steel liner, we applied our experience with Ames and Irrifrance to use specially designed motors, controls, etc.

Dylan:  Water was not discovered by oil will drilling.  The Kufra had long been irrigated with hand move pipe using the brackish standing water in the oases.  The Nubian aquifer was well known long before Occidential Oil started drilling for oil.  It is a huge aquifer running from Sudan through much of Libya and into Egypt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Hefner:  I&#8217;m confused.  I was VP Engineering at Lockwood from 1969 through 1979.  Originally, the Libyans were sold a half dozen center pivots by Jim Ayers of Ames Irrigation Company in San Jose.  The Ames machine was an untested design with 250 foot spans and an aluminum pipe suspended beneath the structure.  It was underpowered and generally badly designed.  But Jim did a great &#8220;sales&#8221; job on the Libyans.  BTW, did you know Mahmoud Khatab?  He was educated in Az and married a Joan from there &#8211; later became head of the irrigation project until he was caught with his hands in the till.  Mahmoud was convinced that the Ames machine was the way to go, even tho it didn&#8217;t &#8220;go&#8221; in the desert &#8211; or anywhere for that matter.  </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the Irrifrance copied a Lindsay pivot and sold 15 or 20 to the project.  They were such a poor copy and the workmanship was so bad, that as fast as they were assembled, they fell down.  Lockwood (President Fred Schneider) entered the picture and was asked if Lockwood could fix the Irrifrance machines and install them.  Fred and I visited the site and surveyed the project.  While climbing over the pile of Irrifrance pipe, I accidentally kicked a pipe flange and the weld broke.</p>
<p>Since Mahmoud was well programed by Ayres, he also wanted us to supply some new machines of the Ames design.  So, we bought the Ames company &#8211; not just for that reason, however &#8211; and set out to produce the Ames design.  I have absolutely no recollection of sending anyone to AZ with a mock up for testing.</p>
<p>Anyway, we did send a crew &#8211; 20 &#8211; 25 men as I recall &#8211; and did fix the Irrefrance machines and install a dozen or so of our Ames design.  I managed the project from Lockwood.  The on-site manager was Keith Rogers (see RAAFT.COM).  </p>
<p>This successful enough that we were able to supply a quantity of pivots of the Lockwood design.  This machine used 120 foot spans.  The irrigation pipe was the structure of the machine. However, since the water was acetic and would consume the zinc coating, we lined the pipe with a thin stainless tube.  It was explosive formed inside the finished pipe.  As far as I know, these are still running after 30+ years.</p>
<p>We used drop spray nozzels to lower the distance that the water had to travel from the pipe to the ground and to control the fine particles inhearant with impact sprinklers.  These fine particles would evaporate before hitting reaching the surface.  Besides using stainless steel liner, we applied our experience with Ames and Irrifrance to use specially designed motors, controls, etc.</p>
<p>Dylan:  Water was not discovered by oil will drilling.  The Kufra had long been irrigated with hand move pipe using the brackish standing water in the oases.  The Nubian aquifer was well known long before Occidential Oil started drilling for oil.  It is a huge aquifer running from Sudan through much of Libya and into Egypt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-201706</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-201706</guid>
		<description>Ok guys, this isn&#039;t some sort of rocket science, all they&#039;re doing is accessing the ground water/water table, same as if you were to drill a well.  This is possible in most of the world and they&#039;re circles because its easiest to water that way.  You can find these in the states as well.  Granted technology in the 60&#039;s was much more limited than it was today but if this truely was discovered through oil drilling, they were quite bad at what they did as oil is found in a different sort of rock composition.  You can drill anywhere, depending on the depth you&#039;ll eventually reach the water table, hence why mines need to pump water out as they dig deeper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok guys, this isn&#8217;t some sort of rocket science, all they&#8217;re doing is accessing the ground water/water table, same as if you were to drill a well.  This is possible in most of the world and they&#8217;re circles because its easiest to water that way.  You can find these in the states as well.  Granted technology in the 60&#8217;s was much more limited than it was today but if this truely was discovered through oil drilling, they were quite bad at what they did as oil is found in a different sort of rock composition.  You can drill anywhere, depending on the depth you&#8217;ll eventually reach the water table, hence why mines need to pump water out as they dig deeper.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Hefner</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-199095</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Hefner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-199095</guid>
		<description>My name is Steve Hefner.  I was the agronomist at the Arizona State University research farm beginning in 1973.  ASU was a part of the consulting group that helped to setup the Kufra project just before I began working at the university.  

Sarir project was setup approximately at the same time run by the French government.

In 1973, the Lockwood Corporation sent two men to the ASU research farm over Christmas break and we worked together building a small demonstration center-povit sprinkler system identical to the Kufra machines.  The idea was that if problems came up in Libya our researchers could workout a solution without having to travel to Kufra.

In the end, the machines had steel joints/couplers between sections of aluminum pipe that rusted severely causing leaks, while rust particles clogged the fine mist sprinkler nozzles.  We grew alfalfa under the sprinkler at the ASU research farm.  In the Arizona summer, I ran the irrigation system as fast as I could 24 hours a day and could just barely keep the alfalfa alive.  The nozzles put out an extremely fine mist which was totaly wrong for desert conditions.  Evaporation and volume of water dispersed were the biggest issues.  Modern L.E.P.A. systems would have solved these problems.

At the Kufra Project, they grew wheat and alfalfa.  I believe most of the wheat was shipped by truck back to the cities on the coast, while the alfalfa fed sheep and maybe goats that were brought into Kufra.  The sheep grazed the irrigation circles and excess alfalfa was baled sent to the coast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My name is Steve Hefner.  I was the agronomist at the Arizona State University research farm beginning in 1973.  ASU was a part of the consulting group that helped to setup the Kufra project just before I began working at the university.  </p>
<p>Sarir project was setup approximately at the same time run by the French government.</p>
<p>In 1973, the Lockwood Corporation sent two men to the ASU research farm over Christmas break and we worked together building a small demonstration center-povit sprinkler system identical to the Kufra machines.  The idea was that if problems came up in Libya our researchers could workout a solution without having to travel to Kufra.</p>
<p>In the end, the machines had steel joints/couplers between sections of aluminum pipe that rusted severely causing leaks, while rust particles clogged the fine mist sprinkler nozzles.  We grew alfalfa under the sprinkler at the ASU research farm.  In the Arizona summer, I ran the irrigation system as fast as I could 24 hours a day and could just barely keep the alfalfa alive.  The nozzles put out an extremely fine mist which was totaly wrong for desert conditions.  Evaporation and volume of water dispersed were the biggest issues.  Modern L.E.P.A. systems would have solved these problems.</p>
<p>At the Kufra Project, they grew wheat and alfalfa.  I believe most of the wheat was shipped by truck back to the cities on the coast, while the alfalfa fed sheep and maybe goats that were brought into Kufra.  The sheep grazed the irrigation circles and excess alfalfa was baled sent to the coast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: selim</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-165556</link>
		<dc:creator>selim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-165556</guid>
		<description>Hello 
I &#039;ll be there in two months. ı &#039;ll send detailed photos</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello<br />
I &#8216;ll be there in two months. ı &#8216;ll send detailed photos</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: George Dickson</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-140924</link>
		<dc:creator>George Dickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-140924</guid>
		<description>Dessert farming, I worked this and other sites from 1982 -1984. This site is (Northern 6 rows) Is Sarir North which was run by the French. The southern 10 were run by Food Devlopment Corporation (From Pascoe) FDC also ran two other sites Wadi Aril and Maknussa which are Norht west of Marzuq. The crops we grew were onions, potatoes, sorghum at Sarir with wheat and corn at the others. FDC were also involved in setting up a dairy in Sabha which had 500 Fresian cows and two bulls but they couldn&#039;t cope so 2 Holstien crosses were brought in to help out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dessert farming, I worked this and other sites from 1982 -1984. This site is (Northern 6 rows) Is Sarir North which was run by the French. The southern 10 were run by Food Devlopment Corporation (From Pascoe) FDC also ran two other sites Wadi Aril and Maknussa which are Norht west of Marzuq. The crops we grew were onions, potatoes, sorghum at Sarir with wheat and corn at the others. FDC were also involved in setting up a dairy in Sabha which had 500 Fresian cows and two bulls but they couldn&#8217;t cope so 2 Holstien crosses were brought in to help out</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kelvin Green</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-138126</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelvin Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-138126</guid>
		<description>A group of us ,Kiwi&#039;s Aussies and Americans installed these pivot irrigation systems in 1980 ( Jan to March ) It was overseen by the French Government . I think that they bankrolled the project . You should be able to count 84 circles but some died very early on. here is a rumour that they are to be rebuilt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A group of us ,Kiwi&#8217;s Aussies and Americans installed these pivot irrigation systems in 1980 ( Jan to March ) It was overseen by the French Government . I think that they bankrolled the project . You should be able to count 84 circles but some died very early on. here is a rumour that they are to be rebuilt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Clif Hammond</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-134521</link>
		<dc:creator>Clif Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-134521</guid>
		<description>The circles at Kufra in Libya were installed beginning in 1972.  Each circle is 1850 feet long and represents 100 hectare.  The first machines installed were produced by the Ames company in California. Ames has been out of business since about 1973.  These machines worked, but were fraught with problems.  Then Alsa (an english company) sold a half dozen aluminum machines, but they were not all installed.  The coefficient of thermal expansion over 1850 feet would rip any standing machine apart.  The French (Irrifrance) sold 27 machines, but the fell down as fast as they were installed.  bad design and extremely poor workmanship.  Over the next few  years, Lockwood Corporation (Gering Nebraska) installed 10 machines of the Ames design and another 80 machines - replacing most of the the Ames, Alsa and Irrifrance machine.

The Kufra is an oasis.  There is standing water at the heart of the oasis, but it is  extremely brackish.   The entire southwest and west of Libya and the eastern part of Egypt is above a very large underground water lake - the Nubian aquifer.  This aquifer is stagnant.  There is no flow.  The elevation of the water table is the same through out the aquifer.  An oasis is where the level of the land (sand) dips down to expose the water at the top of the aquifer.   Since the water at the top of the aquifer is very brackish, there is a well at each circle that goes down some 1500 feet.  While the water artesians to within a few feet of the surface, the irrigation water is actually drawn from a depth of 1500 feet.  Since the water is stagnant, and under a great deal of pressure (nearly 700 psi) at this depth, it contains dissolved CO2.  As the pressure is reduced, this goes to a week carbonic acid. This acid will eat through the conventionally galvanized steel machine is a few short years.  This is why Alsa attempted to use aluminum.  The Lockwood machines were constructed with steel, but lined with stainless steel.  

I have pictures of the installation if one would like to see them.

Clif</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The circles at Kufra in Libya were installed beginning in 1972.  Each circle is 1850 feet long and represents 100 hectare.  The first machines installed were produced by the Ames company in California. Ames has been out of business since about 1973.  These machines worked, but were fraught with problems.  Then Alsa (an english company) sold a half dozen aluminum machines, but they were not all installed.  The coefficient of thermal expansion over 1850 feet would rip any standing machine apart.  The French (Irrifrance) sold 27 machines, but the fell down as fast as they were installed.  bad design and extremely poor workmanship.  Over the next few  years, Lockwood Corporation (Gering Nebraska) installed 10 machines of the Ames design and another 80 machines &#8211; replacing most of the the Ames, Alsa and Irrifrance machine.</p>
<p>The Kufra is an oasis.  There is standing water at the heart of the oasis, but it is  extremely brackish.   The entire southwest and west of Libya and the eastern part of Egypt is above a very large underground water lake &#8211; the Nubian aquifer.  This aquifer is stagnant.  There is no flow.  The elevation of the water table is the same through out the aquifer.  An oasis is where the level of the land (sand) dips down to expose the water at the top of the aquifer.   Since the water at the top of the aquifer is very brackish, there is a well at each circle that goes down some 1500 feet.  While the water artesians to within a few feet of the surface, the irrigation water is actually drawn from a depth of 1500 feet.  Since the water is stagnant, and under a great deal of pressure (nearly 700 psi) at this depth, it contains dissolved CO2.  As the pressure is reduced, this goes to a week carbonic acid. This acid will eat through the conventionally galvanized steel machine is a few short years.  This is why Alsa attempted to use aluminum.  The Lockwood machines were constructed with steel, but lined with stainless steel.  </p>
<p>I have pictures of the installation if one would like to see them.</p>
<p>Clif</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vogel</title>
		<link>http://googlesightseeing.com/2005/06/27/desert-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-134398</link>
		<dc:creator>Vogel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.googlesightseeing.com/?p=374#comment-134398</guid>
		<description>hello hello and chelas!
ciao bella</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello hello and chelas!<br />
ciao bella</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>